Yeah and no. Yeah I am and no I'm not. That sounds crazy, like a politician.
But yeah, I'm the same person, but you grow, you think differently. This new shit is
gonna be some next millennium type shit that everybody on the fuckin' planet can get
onto. They're puttin Rap into everything now-fuckin soap commercial go rappin on 'em, everything.
Rap is revolutionary American politics. It's the shit.

What inspires you to write raps? What really keeps you going?

I don't know. I just don't stop thinking. It just doesn't stop. It can't stop.
No matter what happens, I'll just keep makin the music..It's whatever anyway up in this muthafucka.

When you listen to your old records how do you feel about them?

That shit is dope to me. I fell the same way I felt about 'em when I first made 'em.
I got jams on them muthafuckas, I'll bump that shit and ride to it just like anybody
else. They're not for the weak minded person though, I can tell you that. Scary-scary
just mean that you must buckle up every time you get in the car and you do your thing.
If you ain't trying to get nothing, don't e fuckin' with my shit. It's the hardcore shit,
it's that wicket shit. My shit's some straight -up street, it's all around street-

But you've taken it beyond the street

It's the new millennium. It's way past the hood now. We got songs that people
in the hood can relate to, but also somebody in Australia could relate to our shit. It's all of that shit

I wonder what it is that makes Esham different from any other rapper out there...

You can't clone something. There can only be one of that guy, there can only be
one E-40, there can only be one 2Pac. People got a bad habit of thinkin that the consumer-which is
people like me, cause I'm a consumer, I'm a listener too. I'm still a fan of music, I'm still buyin'
records-don't insult me as a consumer and think that we don't know you're recycling some used shit.
I ain't sayin' it to step on nobody's toes, but people in the music business should not think that
the average listener is that stupid. As a listener I feel cheated and disrespected. People are
raised different, I was raised totally different. I wasn't raised like Prince William.
It's like if C-Bo has a hit, then you're going to hear 20 artists coming out sounding like C-Bo.
People gotta get a lock on that. Everybody knows who's doin the original shit. And at the same
time we don't want some R&B cat comin out being hard, Gansta style-they do like a back flip up
into another style and shit. When you hear Too Short you don't want him to be soundin' like N.W.A.

When you were first coming out, did you think about all that or did you learn
along the way?

Cause nobody helped us, we always had to think. I'm thinkin now, I could never
stop thinkin, not all day. When nobody don't help you you're forced to feed yourself. That's just
what it is. We always been thinkin. I think about every muthafuckin thing I say. I'm not just sayin
any fuckin' thing, all day. When somebody thinks you're a fool, it's up to you to open your mouth and
remove all doubt.

You have created your own sound and your own market.

That's just what it is. We're not in no category. You can't call our music no
typa shit. You shouldn't even expect it to be like that. It was just the bomb-ass shit. It's like
chittlin's or something-you thought it was nasty or something and it wasn't-it totally surprises you.

You call your music Acid Rap What’s that about?

It’s the most potent rap ever, it’s the venom. It’s the spit. It’s the whole essence
of the word Esham, everything. It’s the way we spit it, it’s burnin, it’s hot, it’s acid. That’s where
Acid Rap comes from.

It doesn’t have anything to do with LSD?

Back in the day here a lotta kids were trippin off that shit. When we was goin
to concerts we might do some sheets or whatever. That’s just part of comin up in America.

How old were you when your invented the word Acid Rap?

I was real young, we was like 9 and 10, spittin like that. Back then the groups
we was into was Ghetto Boys, N.W.A., all the original members of that, Too Short. Then they wasn’t
even distributing that kinda Rap when it was so hard to even get that typa shit. You know how people
act like they was down with that shit until it just busted out in the mainstream, but we was up on all
those cats, they was some of our heroes and shit. It was a lotta people we was into from Just Ice to
KRS-One, we liked everybody. If you was dope, you was dope.

When did you really get into rap?

9 and 10 till now. I had got shipped off to New York from Detroit, cause I was
fuckin up down here in school and breakin’ into cars and shit. My mom sent me back to New York to live
with my grandma. That was back when KRS-One and DJ Scott La Rock had got killed when I was in New York.
I remember KRS-One comin on the radio and they was talkin about it. I just digged the whole vibe of
the whole shit.

What part of New York did your family come from?

Long Island. I was born there. My mom packed us up and moved to Detroit when I was
like 3 or 4. But she constantly would send us back for the summer, cause all our cousins and shit were
down there. Back then people used to be dancin and pop lockin and shit, muthafuckas used to be acting
like people from Detroit could dance real good. They used to be lookin at the scene, there was a local
show that used to be syndicated and that was the only way people could see people from Detroit. They
used to think we could dance and water-wave and float real good. We used to go down there and be battlin
them cats. They'd be windmillin on the concrete and shit without no cardboard box under 'em and shit.
That shit was fly. After that I just got off into all that shit from Run DMC to the Fat Boys, anybody
who came out I was down with the whole movement.

You got into Hip Hop when you went to New York, or did you hear about it in Detroit also?

They didn't really play no Rap like that in Detroit. In New York it used to come on the
radio, that was the first time I got a chance to just hear that shit spinnin all night. All them jams
from back in they day, I just got off into them. A couple West Coast acts got in there. I used to hear
the difference in all that shit. Like the beats in the West Coast and they way the East Coast people did it,
we used to be vibin to all that shit. When we was young my brother kinda hooked the whole shit up. He put me on.

You were goin back and forth between New York and Detroit, when did you really settle in Detroit solid?

I had to come back and finish school, I was about 15

Your brother James is older or younger than you?

Older, he's like 4 years older than me. He still was in Detroit though. He didn't
get sent to New York. I got sent to New York cause I was wild. I was getting into too much trouble.
He was in Detroit. As time go on and the politics of time and how everybody in every urban city livin-he
just came up with a formula and we got on with it.

It was his idea to start the record label?

Yeah, he decided to finally get some product and invest in it.

Your Brother wasn't rappin?

Naw, he didn't rap. He rapped at first, but he stopped rappin after so long. He knew I
could rap. He used to always tell me, you gonna blow up just keep rappin and whatever. At the time I was goin
to school and I was goin to a studio used to act funny with the equipment and the studio time and all that shit.
So back then we decided to get some equipment and one thing led to another-started learning about the equipment
and how to play different instruments. When I went to school they had music programs where you could learn how
to play a clarinet or trombone or flute. I was lucky enough to get that shit, now they don't have none of those
programs available. So I started learnin shit-26 keys is 26 keys.

You and your brother set up a studio?

: Right. Started practicing and makin tapes and tryin to come up with our own flavor.
Constant hard work, working our ass off. That's just what it was.

How old were you when you put out your first album, Boomin Words From Hell?

I was 13. Wrote all the lyrics, made all the tracks.

The type of lyrics you were putting together at that age were more advanced than any 20 year
old could write right now.

: I know, but you ain't grew up in Detroit back then neither.

: Detroit was different?

Hell yeah it was different. We was starvin. The recession hit, mobs been kickin in the door,
gotta go to school with the same pants every day. It was hard times. Hard times can make you write some crazy stuff.
I figure the safest way to get all those thoughts outta my system was to record 'em.

: Once you got into the music you didn't get into trouble too much?

No, cause I was constantly doin this. This takes up most of your time if you're really in this
business. It's gonna take up all your time. I just got accustomed to doing this. I didn't play no sports or nothing
like that. It was all music, I ain't got off into nothing else. Just goin to school and doin the music.

You made the beats or your brother?

: I made 'em, I made all the shit. My brother had the cheese to put the album on the streets.
He was handlin all the paperwork and getting all the connection with distribution and whatnot, just handlin his business.

When you were staying in New York, did you feel misplaced coming from Detroit or vice versa?

See, that's the kinda person I am. I can go anywhere and adapt. I don't know, just being that
young my O.G., my mother, she used to send us on the Greyhound. We used to always be travlin. Little boyscouts
travelin lil' muthafuckas. We used to be traveling and communicating with all kinds of people-White, Black,
Mexican-so I can go anywhere and it don't even matter.

Do you spend a lot of time on your own or are you usually with other people?

: I'm a by myself kinda person.

That's the way I see you. A lot of people are always in the crowd or on the streets,
I don't see you like that.

: It's just how I was raised. Back in the day, like I say my brother had the cheese
to put a record out, but people didn't even know how to get a record deal let alone put a record out. We was doin
a lotta stuff nobody else was doin. We helped a lot of people. People who had questions, we'd answer those questions.
It was a learnin' experience. I always had something, I never really wanted for nothing like that after a certain point.
The shit started getting better, it's like every day is a struggle. You learn to deal with that shit the older you get.
It wasn't like a material thing.

How big of a role did your brother, James, play in your success?

He did a lot man.

He's still with you?

: He's still with me, yeah, but he's goin through some things right now himself too. I mean this
business ain't right. Show business ain't right. There's no business like show business that shit is right. True indeed,
only the strong survive, but that shit is very hard on your head if you don't know what you're doin, and if your expectations
and your priorities and all that shit ain't in the right place. You might get fuckin HCE--our fuckin head'll blow up. I
ain't gonna get off into all that.

But you're down with your brother still?

Yeah, we're down to the end.

When you first started there probably wasn't much goin on with rap in Detroit.

It was a couple of cats doin their thing, but it was shit goin on to where people were takin them seriously.
They wasn't comin with no styles where people were takin notice. Like when I first heard a Too Short record I was like, goddamn
that's the shit! He came with a new style. You never before heard nobody talkin no shit like he was talkin. That's how I wanted
to make my record-not like Too Short, but when I talk about some shit I wanted it to be some shit that wasn't nobody else talkin.

: I've heard that you were the first person to write a Rap about smoking weed.

: In a sense yeah. We called that truth, that's what people called bud back then, and we had put a song out
about that way back in the day. But it ain't no big deal.

Even though you haven't been recognized in the mainstream, what you have done has had a big impact on the underground.
You've influenced a lot of people.

We're caught up in the bureacracy and the politics of our city and our state. We're caught up in the whole web.
I don't know when it would accept anybody comin outta Detroit if your ass ain't comin from the Motown era. If your ass ain't
70 years old-they hate young people too. You gotta remember, there's a lotta people in the Rap game-they thinkin like they teenagers
and shit, but they're like 30, damn near 40 years old. Like I say, the record business is shady.

Do you feel burned out about it? Like you haven't gotten the recognition that you deserve?

Not like that, I ain't never think like that. If you know me, I'm like no celebrity-I go beyond that typa shit.

You don't feel mad that you haven't got your props?

That's the powers that be, that's the whole shit that we still fightin against. We still doin that. Like I say,
we ain't stopped thinkin. It's today. A lotta people ain't even thinkin today, ain't even here to think. I can't say that, I don't
have control of time.

Wouldn't you like to be as big as Ice Cube or Jay Z? Wouldn't you like want that?

We're just so different from that. What I would want to be, I couldn't even describe it in words. I could only
show you, if you look up in the sky and see the sun-that's what I would wanna be. If that's something that they are, I can't see it
right now.

You seem to have your own philosophy.

I just be writin that shit that just pop up in my head. That shit just comes out. We use it, we literally use
everything, the thoughts that are coming out. People gotta use they head. I use mine. What I mean is-it's just that, I use
mine. (they're laughing at the right time).

People are wondering what to expect on you new album. Is it more of the wicket shit or something different?

They're gonna be getting a little bit of everything, a whole rainbow of shit. It's gonna be like fuckin taste
the rainbow-so much flavor when they get it. Possibilities are endless when they get it. They're gonna have everything that they
want for their money on that record. They ain't gonna be disappointed, and then the killin part about it is it's not gonna sound
like any of the other 20 some odd albums that we've got. It's totally different. Some people say that , like each album they put
out is gonna be totally different, but sometimes that's not true. And the listener's not stupid like I say, when we hear the new
record-sounding like the old record-that is whack. When we do a record, we make a whole truly different album, whole truly new
material breaking new ground we ain't never even went this way. But still we keep the old stuff that got us here. We keep the
nucleus of what we were doin always. But at the same time we wanna give your ears a little taste of the world, at the same time
how we see it, the travels that we've been on.

You feel that Mail Dominance is a ground breaking album for you? You haven't come up with an album for
about 2 years.

That's what I'm sayin, we worked on this one. It's some different shit. That's all I can say. No particular
group is gonna say: yo this is this typa music, this is ghetto fab, this is this, this is that. You can't say nothing about it
other than this is bumpin. Like Sade or something-what do you call her shit? Is it jazz? R&B? She just puts out some dope-ass
shit, whatever you wanna call it. My shit is some whatever-you-wanna call it shit.

How long have you been working on Mail Dominance?

Since like '97. Some of the songs I already had. That's just what I do, I just keep makin songs up.
Just pump that shit out like a factory-make like 5 songs a day and shit. We push it to the extreme.

You pushed it to the extreme on this album?

It's just how we make records. We have so many songs, then we pick from all the songs the ones we this is the
bomb-that're just so flavorable that we can't resist 'em. Then we throw 'em all on the album and give 'em back to the public.
I ain't trying to dress it up, I ain't trying to sell you no fantasy on it..I ain't trying to sell you nothing.

You must have a lot of songs that you never put out?

Yeah, I got tons of shit. I've had my own studio all my life, it's always on. Man, I got shit. I can do
like 10 box sets. Sometimes I'll just sit back and take a blast from the past and listen to 'em, listen to different shit
that I never put out. For myself, how I grew as a person, just what I was even bustin about it.

Do you write your lyrics when you're by yourself or with the music?

: It depends. It all gets back to thinking. I'm always thinkin and that shit just pop up in my head.
I just try to keep all the positive thoughts that I can. We all know we can all think good and bad. Bein that we all have
the power and that choice to do something, I'm tryin to get all the positive thoughts that I can-gather them all together and
make me a song. All the thought that I think are positive in my own way. I might say something and you might interpret it in
a different way, but actually it was meant to be positive. Bein that we came from two different places, you might not relate
to what I say and how I said it.

What you put in your lyrics is so real and you put it so bluntly that a lot of people can't take it.

If you can watch The Burning Bed then you can listen to an Esham tape. You ever see that movie with
Farrah fuckin Fawcet in it where the guy is beatin the shit outta her and slappin her around and shit-they show that shit on
prime time TV, but muthafuckas get mad at an Esham record. Come on man, get over it. And they playin worse shit on TV now
with cable and all the new technology. This shit is wide open. Its nothing I can say that'll shock any muthafucka on this
planet.

Do you think it's all been said?

In a sense that's why it's so universal, we all are sayin the same thing. Who's sayin it better and
who's sayin it clearer to where you can really understand it.

A lot of people don't want to confront reality.

: They just don't wanna think about those issues. They don't wanna confront the reality. They just
wanna live in their own little world and act like some of this shit ain't goin on. That's just what it is, some people don't
wanna grow up. I didn't make this fuckin world, I didn't make this place. Come on. They can't even send me fuckin home.
They got all types of Heavy Metal groups that were way more out cold than what we be talkin about. But as soon as you got
a nigga up there talkin shit, it's the end of the world!! He's got a gun, oh shit. That's the reality of the whole shit.
That's America. But fuck it, I'm gonna pump that shit cause I like that hard shit personally. I love the hard shit.
I'm one of them muthafuckas that when you put that hardcore tape out I bought it and I loved it. It wasn't nothing that
made me want to go out there and do nothing crazy. It was just the fattest shit that I heard, it was rough.

Do you think people are doing that kind of shit now?

: You got some people, but I don't think they really bringin-it-bringin-it. They ain't bringin nothing new.
There's a lotta them refried beans out there. That's what I call it anyway.

People are playing it too safe, trying to please the industry and the radio stations?

That's how people do, they're just trying to meet their numbers anyway. It's not about puttin out good music,
it's just about "I'm doin these numbers and those are the numbers". We go back to the consumer and back to the listener.
It's only so long that the public is gonna take that type of force-feeding garbage in the mouth like that. They'll spit it
back out and yell yuck.

You see so many people come with a radio hit, they're all over the TV and magazines and then they disappear.
I think Esham's music will live forever.

Hell yeah, that's how we put it out here I put it out there cause I want you to hear that shit. When I made
that record it was so dope to me that-I'm so afraid that you might go a lifetime without hearing an Esham record and that would
be a waste. I want you to hear that record. I want you to get that reaction. I want you to get excited, say that shit is different.
It's a new product on the market, refreshing. It's like anything else, when you hit that ass you want it to hit and it was just the bomb!
Or you just got something that go your way one time. It's just one of those things.

So many people who've done amazing things in this world never got recognition until they were dead.

That's what I sayin, and I'm like fuck that! I ain't even trying to go out like that. I'm trying to change that shit,
like the only way you can get it is dead. Fuck That!

If you were a regular consumer would you buy an Esham record?

That's be the first muthafucka I'd go buy. I wouldn't have a car and not have an Esham record in there. That
shit go together.

On all your albums you made the music and the beats? What about the new one?

On the new one me and Jade Scott worked together. He's from New York, but he lives in Michigan. He helped
me on this new project. I did most of them. I collaborated with a couple people on a couple of records. Like on Dead Flowers I
worked with a lotta up and comin producers in Detroit. I tried to collaborate and keep the unity, one love. For the most part I like
to make my own shit. I'm the only one who hears it in my head like that. What I'm bringing you, that shit was ringin around my head like
that. It's not a case where you have an artist and you have producers, they're bringin it all, they're an all man team-that's what I
call 'em-and they're all playin against us. They playin with the all-man because they're nothing all by themselves, they gotta get the
all-man muthafuckin universal dream team.

If I were A & R for a record label I'd sign you in a second.

They're sleepin. You gotta understand this too: they'll never understand me because I been from the future. I'm
the new thing, I'm the future, I'm that thing, I'm that being. They'll never really understand nothing that we're doin. Some people
will-they're quicker and they're smarter-they'll bypass all the bullshit. When we make records, I don't really concentrate on the
industry or none of that. I concentrate on trying to make a song not sounding like nobody. We ain't tryin to bite nobody's shit,
ride on your little groove. We ain't doin none of that shit, we coin with all original hits like how Barry Gody and them used to do
it back in the day, right up from scratch. I care about the industry as far the business in it, hell yeah I care. But as far as the
people in it and the characters amongst them, I don't give a fuck about them. You don't gotta like these muthafuckas, you don't gotta like 'em.

When you listen to your old albums do you feel you've changed a lot?

Every year I feel like the production and the overall recording of the albums got better. That's one of the reasons I
never went back and messed with none of them, it would be like messin with a period of time. If you heard the collection you would notice
that each one of them got better with time and everything started to tighten up, til we got to the point where we are today where we could
come in and don't even hook a drum machine up and still come out with some fat shit with some drums and a guitar.

When you make a song, what's the most important thing?

That you can feel the groove. Everyone of the songs gotta have a groove and it's gonna be an original groove.
You know George Clinton, that's my muthafuckin boy. Peace to the people, I'm down with that shit. You know that shit come from Detroit,
and George Clinton stay up in this muthafucka, but they ain't sayin all that. But what I'm sayin is when I make a song it's got a groove
that you ain't never heard before, it's nice and catchy and I'll get your mood.

For whatever reason your music has been labeled as devil associated.

That's how we're spittin it. The unholy wicket shit. I'm spittin unholy lyrics. It's like a nickname.

Do you think that image worked to your advantage or disadvantage?

I can't say that. What I can say, it's just the wicket shit. That shit's just hardcore. That shit's just comin
in here bumpin. I meant to do it like that. It's supposed to be hard like that. It's supposed to hit you like that, make you
wonder what the fuck.

: You wanted to talk about things other people just wouldn't talk about?

That, and just really talk about the subject. Instead of just blabbin about some shit, do some research and really
get off into the topic. It's years of thoughts. We talk about a lotta things. It's just like bein a part of a certain club. You sittin
in the V.I.P. section you're gonna get certain privileges, you listen to these records you're gonna get certain things that you might not hear
anywhere else. You're gonna hear certain dialogs, certain lingos, the way we kick it. Just like any area, our area hasn't been tapped into yet.
People haven't looked in our area yet. Once they open their eyes on what's actually here then they'll e given us hear. All it will just come to light.